path: root/meeting-logs/20081204.txt

2008 Dec 04 20:01:04  <scarabeus> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde_meeting0812.txt
2008 Dec 04 20:01:11  <scarabeus> time is here
2008 Dec 04 20:01:13  <scarabeus> so who is around?
2008 Dec 04 20:01:23  -*- tampakrap 
2008 Dec 04 20:01:26  -*- bonsaikitten 
2008 Dec 04 20:01:43  <scarabeus> !herd kde
2008 Dec 04 20:01:44  <Willikins> (kde) caleb, carlo, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, mattepiu, scarabeus, tgurr
2008 Dec 04 20:01:54  <scarabeus> guys you should all show up :]
2008 Dec 04 20:01:54  -*- krytzz 
2008 Dec 04 20:02:01  <keytoaster> hi there!
2008 Dec 04 20:02:22  -*- jmbsvicetto 
2008 Dec 04 20:02:40  <scarabeus> krytzz, Sput: you two around?
2008 Dec 04 20:02:42  -*- cryos|work is here
2008 Dec 04 20:02:49  <krytzz> yes
2008 Dec 04 20:03:20  <scarabeus> ok i think that is most we can get, any words from others, stating that they show up too?
2008 Dec 04 20:03:35  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: No idea
2008 Dec 04 20:03:49  <bonsaikitten> I guess we should let their backlog do its work ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:04:02  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: About your agenda, we should start with a "simple" point - who is still working / willing to work with KDE 3.5
2008 Dec 04 20:04:10  <tampakrap> me
2008 Dec 04 20:04:15  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: That doesn't work with caleb and carlo ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:04:28  <cryos|work> I am somewhat, but with limited time...
2008 Dec 04 20:04:31  <bonsaikitten> as long as it is only ebuild maintenance and not C++ stabbing I'm willing to keep it alive
2008 Dec 04 20:04:41  <bonsaikitten> but I have no interest in 3.5 anymore :)
2008 Dec 04 20:04:48  <tampakrap> i said i still use kde3 in my main desktop and wanted to have various tests about that and check bugs of course
2008 Dec 04 20:04:54  <tampakrap> but i was busy with the quiz
2008 Dec 04 20:04:55  -*- cryos|work has waning interest in it...
2008 Dec 04 20:05:18  <bonsaikitten> our users want it, so those primitives have to be kept happy ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:05:41  <scarabeus> yes i would say it is requirement to have kde3 around until kde4.3
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2008 Dec 04 20:06:00  <bonsaikitten> maybe even longer. if 3.5 is stable enough maintenance should be cheap
2008 Dec 04 20:06:01  <krytzz> yes
2008 Dec 04 20:06:03  <jmbsvicetto> I'm not saying we should drop 3.5, I'm asking who is willing to keep it alive ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:06:05  <cryos|work> Quite probably, but it is essentially dead upstream.
2008 Dec 04 20:06:07  <scarabeus> jkt|: maybe you will be interested in this too
2008 Dec 04 20:06:20  -=- hwoarang is now known as hwo[a]rang
2008 Dec 04 20:06:25  <cryos|work> I will do what I can to help.
2008 Dec 04 20:06:28  <jmbsvicetto> Also, who is willing to work on the issues caused by the mixing of 3.5 with 4
2008 Dec 04 20:06:44  <tampakrap> me :)
2008 Dec 04 20:06:44  <cryos|work> I have noted many distros already dropping it in new releases. Just keeping unported apps around.
2008 Dec 04 20:07:08  <scarabeus> cryos|work: people would hate us, kde4 is not yet ready, even i miss some features
2008 Dec 04 20:07:10  <bonsaikitten> I guess all of us will be hybrid users as noone goes back to a 3.5 desktop anymore :)
2008 Dec 04 20:07:16  <cryos|work> I will help when I can, I think I may have neglected to pick up all the pieces...
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2008 Dec 04 20:07:34  <bonsaikitten> cryos|work: life happened. don't beat yourself up for that :)
2008 Dec 04 20:07:48  <cryos|work> scarabeus: I am not talking about dropping it, I am however pointing out the deadness of upstream in that sense and what other distros are tending to do.
2008 Dec 04 20:08:08  <scarabeus> i understand.
2008 Dec 04 20:08:12  <cryos|work> Thanks bonsaikitten ;-)
2008 Dec 04 20:08:13  <reavertm> (if I'm out again it means my hardware is failing again, don't bother)
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2008 Dec 04 20:08:22  <cryos|work> We should keep an eye on what is happening elsewhere.
2008 Dec 04 20:08:22  -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+v reavertm] by scarabeus
2008 Dec 04 20:08:35  <bonsaikitten> so we'll keep it alive, but there's a good chance we won't give it high priority
2008 Dec 04 20:09:03  <scarabeus> agreed, on low priority i think we can handle this, and we should be closing up enhancement request for kde3
2008 Dec 04 20:09:10  <scarabeus> since it would be just pointless work
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2008 Dec 04 20:09:42  <bonsaikitten> mostly agree
2008 Dec 04 20:09:53  <reavertm> kde page stated along with some kde4 release announcement: "Don't look back" :)
2008 Dec 04 20:09:55  <tampakrap> after all kde4.2 is close and will be stable enough
2008 Dec 04 20:10:31  <scarabeus> ok so lets mark kde3 as work for cryos and tampakrap, i think you two can talk out what is needed on that field
2008 Dec 04 20:10:38  <scarabeus> anyone else willing to jump on kde3?
2008 Dec 04 20:10:57  <tampakrap> i don't think we need more people
2008 Dec 04 20:11:05  <tampakrap> let's focus on kde4 "the future"
2008 Dec 04 20:11:09  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: Yes, a dead upstream (3.5) and their lack of work to keep more than one version around are the most important cause of the open bugs - imho
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2008 Dec 04 20:11:49  <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Certainly, and so the distros are forced to move along with them unless they have considerable resources.
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2008 Dec 04 20:12:01  <reavertm> well, upstream simply has no manpower to maintaint both
2008 Dec 04 20:12:07  <bonsaikitten> cryos|work: never underestimate gentoo users ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:12:07  <cryos|work> There was some talk of a distro maintained patch set but I haven't seen mention of it recently.
2008 Dec 04 20:12:24  <scarabeus> cryos|work: ask arch linux team
2008 Dec 04 20:12:25  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: For 3.5?
2008 Dec 04 20:12:31  <scarabeus> they have probably best kde3 team around
2008 Dec 04 20:12:33  <scarabeus> currently
2008 Dec 04 20:12:43  <scarabeus> their kdemod is epic
2008 Dec 04 20:13:06  <St_MPA3b> htmlhandbook provides whole help or only some additional files?
2008 Dec 04 20:13:20  <scarabeus> St_MPA3b: whole help
2008 Dec 04 20:13:33  <St_MPA3b> scarabeus: thanks
2008 Dec 04 20:13:55  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: talking about htmlhandbook, I ended up not moving it away from ebuilds and into the eclass :\
2008 Dec 04 20:13:57  <St_MPA3b> scarabeus: and there are currently no file collisions if htmlhandbook is turned off?
2008 Dec 04 20:15:11  <St_MPA3b> in @kde-live
2008 Dec 04 20:15:30  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well that goes for next point of meeting
2008 Dec 04 20:15:33  <scarabeus> kde4 eclasses
2008 Dec 04 20:15:40  <scarabeus> i heavily rewrote them
2008 Dec 04 20:15:48  <scarabeus> applied some suggestions from jmbsvicetto
2008 Dec 04 20:15:53  <reavertm> (again?)
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2008 Dec 04 20:15:57  <scarabeus> any moar points to them
2008 Dec 04 20:16:04  <St_MPA3b> when there will be commit?
2008 Dec 04 20:16:13  <scarabeus> reavertm: they are still the same, it was not yet accepted.
2008 Dec 04 20:16:52  <cryos|work> So what are the main changes made?
2008 Dec 04 20:17:12  <scarabeus> mostly we allow dynamic detection for kde4
2008 Dec 04 20:17:23  <scarabeus> so apps can work with kde4.1 and kde4.2 and live
2008 Dec 04 20:17:25  <scarabeus> no matter what
2008 Dec 04 20:17:32  <St_MPA3b> nice
2008 Dec 04 20:17:32  <scarabeus> eclasses handles all deps correctly
2008 Dec 04 20:17:40  <scarabeus> also i removed most of not required code
2008 Dec 04 20:17:41  <cryos|work> Which one are they linking too/building against?
2008 Dec 04 20:17:45  <jmbsvicetto> This is a bad thing(tm) in design, but I don't have a better alternative
2008 Dec 04 20:18:21  <scarabeus> cryos|work: well now you can specify which kde it needs as minimal and then specify search order for other kde versions
2008 Dec 04 20:18:26  <scarabeus> basicly it preffers -kdeprefix
2008 Dec 04 20:18:34  <reavertm> (actually one guy had problems with updating from 4.1.2 to 4.1.3 with -kdeprefix using portage eclasses and kde-crazy ones didn't help
2008 Dec 04 20:18:45  <cryos|work> If they build/link against the latest version installed, they may not link to an earlier version, if it builds against old that doesn't have new symbols it won't compile.
2008 Dec 04 20:18:46  <reavertm> it may still need some checks
2008 Dec 04 20:19:12  <scarabeus> cryos|work: that all can be ebuld specified
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2008 Dec 04 20:19:23  <cryos|work> That is why I have always erred on the side of saying this is possible but a support nightmare.
2008 Dec 04 20:19:37  <scarabeus> reavertm: he had fucked up kdesvn eclasses i guess, since we used that slot loong ago
2008 Dec 04 20:19:41  <cryos|work> If it seems to work that is great though.
2008 Dec 04 20:19:55  <scarabeus> yeah it works for all overlay guys
2008 Dec 04 20:20:06  <scarabeus> and also my eclass supports koffice
2008 Dec 04 20:20:07  <cryos|work> I think in general they should build/link against oldest installed version that satisfies the deps.
2008 Dec 04 20:20:13  <scarabeus> which i can maintain with bonsaikittens help
2008 Dec 04 20:20:17  <scarabeus> if he is still interested
2008 Dec 04 20:20:19  <cryos|work> If KDE devs did their job well it will link to the latest version.
2008 Dec 04 20:20:21  <scarabeus> koffice2
2008 Dec 04 20:20:41  <krytzz> i could help there too a little bit
2008 Dec 04 20:20:41  <scarabeus> cryos|work: that is default behavior
2008 Dec 04 20:20:42  <cryos|work> So if we are planning on supporting it that should be the default behaviour.
2008 Dec 04 20:20:52  <cryos|work> That sounds good to me then.
2008 Dec 04 20:21:00  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There are a few things about get_latest_kdedir. That function shouldn't have hardcoded version strings - they should instead be defined in a var like KDE_SLOTS
2008 Dec 04 20:21:02  <scarabeus> but dev can specify other order in ebuild
2008 Dec 04 20:21:31  <cryos|work> OK, but I would discourage them from doing that unless they have an amazing reason to do so.
2008 Dec 04 20:21:33  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well enjoy its updating :] i will be hapy to see help from others :], i have no idea how to use it best, so i did it this way
2008 Dec 04 20:21:50  <scarabeus> cryos|work: all written in comments for those variables
2008 Dec 04 20:21:56  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yeah, I'll see what I can do about it
2008 Dec 04 20:22:52  <cryos|work> Sounds fine, we just need to stick to some policies for in tree stuff at least.
2008 Dec 04 20:23:08  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / cryos|work: Most of the issues that we're having (besides the linking to a versioned dir) is that upstream is breaking ABI continuously for KDE4, right?
2008 Dec 04 20:23:09  <scarabeus> i use it for in tree stuff just fine
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2008 Dec 04 20:23:18  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: right
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2008 Dec 04 20:23:46  <scarabeus> cryos|work: i will run some test tomorow and fix all remaining compatibility problems
2008 Dec 04 20:24:10  <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Yeah, but they promised not to after 4.1. I guess they are failing...
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2008 Dec 04 20:24:25  <jmbsvicetto> Oh, an important point about the eclasses - are we ready to block kde4 eclasses for EAPI-0 and EAPI-1?
2008 Dec 04 20:24:30  <cryos|work> I am talking at Camp KDE 2009 too - KDE and Gentoo.
2008 Dec 04 20:24:43  <krytzz> cool ^^
2008 Dec 04 20:24:47  <scarabeus> i volte for only eapi2
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2008 Dec 04 20:24:57  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: EAPI-2 or later ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:25:00  <scarabeus> yes
2008 Dec 04 20:25:39  <cryos|work> Can we block change the EAPI on an existing in tree e-class? Don't we need to maintain backwards compatibility on eclasses?
2008 Dec 04 20:26:08  <cryos|work> That is a question as I can't remember what the policy is.
2008 Dec 04 20:26:09  <scarabeus> cryos|work: well packages will be broken if they use eapi lower than 2 and our eclass even currently
2008 Dec 04 20:26:13  <scarabeus> so we should block it
2008 Dec 04 20:26:24  <jmbsvicetto> That would allow us to drop the QT4_BUILT_WITH_USE_CHECK, KDE4_BUILT_WITH_USE_CHECK and friends
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2008 Dec 04 20:26:57  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I'll confirm it with zmedico, but iirc the eclasses are now saved to vdb
2008 Dec 04 20:27:13  <cryos|work> I am just not certain we can do that, but I could be wrong. An eclass that used to work with a version of portage should at least work to uninstall said ebuild.
2008 Dec 04 20:27:14  <scarabeus> and no eapi1 package currently uses our eclass
2008 Dec 04 20:27:38  <cryos|work> If the policy has changed due to portage changes then fine, but last I checked it had not.
2008 Dec 04 20:27:47  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I'll be sure to check it
2008 Dec 04 20:27:50  <cryos|work> You could leave empty functions there, but they had to remain there.
2008 Dec 04 20:28:14  <cryos|work> So that it is possible to uninstall the cached ebuild that didn't cache its eclass.
2008 Dec 04 20:28:16  -*- jmbsvicetto mumbles - versioned eclasses
2008 Dec 04 20:28:29  -*- cryos|work thinks versioning should be used.
2008 Dec 04 20:28:29  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: understood
2008 Dec 04 20:28:37  <cryos|work> It would get rid of many of these concerns.
2008 Dec 04 20:29:00  <scarabeus> ok this could be handled later, jmbsvicetto can i wrote you as man taking care of eapi2only?
2008 Dec 04 20:29:03  <cryos|work> We have what we have and I didn't want changes to hose peoples systems.
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2008 Dec 04 20:30:35  <scarabeus> ok for next issue i see is wrong SLOT for our kde4 packages in the tree
2008 Dec 04 20:30:41  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sure
2008 Dec 04 20:30:41  <scarabeus> how to deal that
2008 Dec 04 20:30:51  <scarabeus> i did something that should work for ktorrent
2008 Dec 04 20:30:59  <krytzz> hm ill have a look
2008 Dec 04 20:31:01  <scarabeus> but i hope there will be better solution for the others
2008 Dec 04 20:31:12  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what "wrong" slot?
2008 Dec 04 20:31:16  <scarabeus> they use 4.1
2008 Dec 04 20:31:21  -*- cryos|work is confused too.
2008 Dec 04 20:31:25  <scarabeus> what used to mark kde they work
2008 Dec 04 20:31:34  <scarabeus> but with new eclasses they should be marked as app version
2008 Dec 04 20:31:36  <scarabeus> not slot of kde
2008 Dec 04 20:31:53  <cryos|work> What app version?
2008 Dec 04 20:32:00  <scarabeus> for example
2008 Dec 04 20:32:04  <scarabeus> ktorrent has version 3
2008 Dec 04 20:32:07  <scarabeus> and 2
2008 Dec 04 20:32:10  <scarabeus> in the tree
2008 Dec 04 20:32:15  <scarabeus> so 2 is slot:0
2008 Dec 04 20:32:19  <scarabeus> and 3 is slot:3
2008 Dec 04 20:32:25  <scarabeus> but now it was slot:4.1
2008 Dec 04 20:32:28  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I know what he means
2008 Dec 04 20:32:34  <reavertm> 2 is for kde3?
2008 Dec 04 20:32:39  <scarabeus> reavertm: yes
2008 Dec 04 20:32:43  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: The code used to apply only for packages in kde-base, that restriction was removed
2008 Dec 04 20:32:54  <cryos|work> Can the two actually be slotted?
2008 Dec 04 20:33:02  <jmbsvicetto> That is another issue
2008 Dec 04 20:33:05  <reavertm> isn't this an issue only for -kdeprefix?
2008 Dec 04 20:33:08  <cryos|work> Is it wise to remove the restriction?
2008 Dec 04 20:33:21  <cryos|work> Are they all going into kdeprefix now?
2008 Dec 04 20:33:22  <scarabeus> cryos|work: yes it is working as charm :]
2008 Dec 04 20:33:34  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: probably not, but it was done to enforce the use of prefix in kde-misc
2008 Dec 04 20:33:34  <scarabeus> cryos|work: yes all packages sets themself based on kdeprefix
2008 Dec 04 20:33:50  <reavertm> I mean, if kde3 apps are going to /usr/kde/3.5 soon, there should be no issue anymore
2008 Dec 04 20:34:20  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: That means we'll get with the kde3 apps the same issue we currently have with kde4 apps - they stop working after you bump kde version
2008 Dec 04 20:34:23  <cryos|work> What about with -kdeprefix? They are still good I assume?
2008 Dec 04 20:34:40  <jmbsvicetto> The slot is changed, but the install location is still /usr
2008 Dec 04 20:35:01  <reavertm> well, kde3 will be no longer revbumped I'm afraid
2008 Dec 04 20:35:02  <cryos|work> So they do the funky blocker that allows simulataneous files that collide,
2008 Dec 04 20:35:15  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: yes - that needs to be fixed
2008 Dec 04 20:35:22  <krytzz> jmbsvicetto hm i thought every future version of ktorrent for example it stays in the 3 slot right?
2008 Dec 04 20:35:33  <scarabeus> cryos|work: i will give you my list of thoughts for kde3
2008 Dec 04 20:35:38  <krytzz> and with the other extragear apps too
2008 Dec 04 20:35:57  <scarabeus> cryos|work: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde3-misc_packages.txt
2008 Dec 04 20:36:06  <jmbsvicetto> with scarabeus update yes. It was going to be 4.X without it
2008 Dec 04 20:36:07  <scarabeus> krytzz: yep
2008 Dec 04 20:36:12  <cryos|work> If you are installing the app into the kdeprefix then it makes sense for it to share the slot of the prefix dir it goes into.
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2008 Dec 04 20:36:32  <scarabeus> cryos|work: well it can go to -kdeprefix too
2008 Dec 04 20:36:35  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: That was my thought, but now I have my doubts
2008 Dec 04 20:36:51  <scarabeus> and you cant make dynamic slot
2008 Dec 04 20:37:03  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: amarok stopped working here with 4.1.80 because it was installed with 4.1.3, even though I still have 4.1.3 around
2008 Dec 04 20:37:07  <scarabeus> sice ktorrent-3.1 now can go intoo 4.1 4.2 and live dirs
2008 Dec 04 20:37:20  <cryos|work> That is why I have always had my doubts about slotting apps not released with the main KDE modules, you have to make artificial bumps I guess to other packages?
2008 Dec 04 20:37:40  <cryos|work> How does ktorrent decide which prefix to install to?
2008 Dec 04 20:37:40  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: at this point I really don't know what to do
2008 Dec 04 20:38:05  <krytzz> :(
2008 Dec 04 20:38:07  <cryos|work> This scheme sounds really messy, but I haven't been using it and so don't know what to say.
2008 Dec 04 20:38:16  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: One idea that crossed my mind was to install these apps into /usr/kde/apps/${PN}/${PV}
2008 Dec 04 20:38:24  <reavertm> the easiest would be to allow only one KDE4 installed...
2008 Dec 04 20:38:41  -*- cryos|work kinda suggested that...
2008 Dec 04 20:38:48  <jmbsvicetto> but scarabeus tried doing that and couldn't get it working with symlinks
2008 Dec 04 20:38:58  <scarabeus> yeah i failed there too much
2008 Dec 04 20:39:03  <scarabeus> it was not working for me
2008 Dec 04 20:39:10  <cryos|work> Having so many options can be extremely tough to support.
2008 Dec 04 20:39:13  <scarabeus> feel free to do it again for yourself
2008 Dec 04 20:39:21  <scarabeus> cryos|work: i know :(
2008 Dec 04 20:40:06  <cryos|work> That is why many distros choose not to do this, and it has bitten us many times in the past. 3.5 is simpler now due to no more bumps.
2008 Dec 04 20:40:11  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: This is another case were the real solution would be for upstream to think about this and provide a solution for having multiple versions in the same prefix
2008 Dec 04 20:40:36  <scarabeus> we should try to push versioning on upstream
2008 Dec 04 20:40:40  <scarabeus> that is not bad idea
2008 Dec 04 20:40:41  <cryos|work> I agree with you entirely
2008 Dec 04 20:40:55  <krytzz> has anyone asked for this already?
2008 Dec 04 20:41:07  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: You've talked before with upstream about this, haven't you?
2008 Dec 04 20:41:12  <cryos|work> I do think having multiple minor versions available to people who do not really know what they are doing is possibly a recipe for failure...
2008 Dec 04 20:41:28  <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Yes, and I will probably talk about it again at Camp KDE in January.
2008 Dec 04 20:41:48  <cryos|work> Many other distro developers also very much wanted this, and to a degree it works.
2008 Dec 04 20:41:56  <jmbsvicetto> Didn't you have a presentation you did about this issue?
2008 Dec 04 20:41:57  <cryos|work> Not to the degree Gentoo would like though.
2008 Dec 04 20:42:08  <cryos|work> Yes - it is on my blog somewhere.
2008 Dec 04 20:42:22  <jmbsvicetto> That should be an interesting reading for people in the team
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2008 Dec 04 20:43:03  <scarabeus> yeah i would like to see it :]
2008 Dec 04 20:43:23  <krytzz> hm but with -kdeprefix there is no problem then... if the ABI is stable
2008 Dec 04 20:43:38  <cryos|work> http://blog.cryos.net/archives/146-Gentoo-KDE-Talk-at-aKademy.html
2008 Dec 04 20:44:58  <scarabeus> ok next point is more nice and all developers are needed: we need some lead, so people can oficialy find one, /me is proposing jmbsvicetto O:P (meantime looking on presentation on second monitor)
2008 Dec 04 20:45:00  <cryos|work> I will be preparing half of the talk for the KDE and distros talk in January - so let me know if there are things you would like to be raised.
2008 Dec 04 20:45:46  -*- cryos|work never really saw the need for the hierarchy in small herds, but whatever makes you happy.
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2008 Dec 04 20:46:28  <cryos|work> The KDE herd didn't have a lead for years and flourished, then dwindled... It is all about building a friendly community (lead or no).
2008 Dec 04 20:46:58  <jmbsvicetto> I agree with cryos|work about having a friendly community
2008 Dec 04 20:47:00  <krytzz> i have nothing against it :p
2008 Dec 04 20:47:05  <scarabeus> :D
2008 Dec 04 20:47:31  <jmbsvicetto> Oh and I'm not that eager to get the "lead" hat :P
2008 Dec 04 20:47:32  <scarabeus> i dont mind how this will evolve so i leave this one definetly up to all
2008 Dec 04 20:47:44  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yeah i am pretty sure of this :D
2008 Dec 04 20:47:54  <scarabeus> noone wants to be lead i would say
2008 Dec 04 20:47:56  <tampakrap> i think we should have a leader just as the other herds do
2008 Dec 04 20:48:05  <tampakrap> not because we need someone to decide
2008 Dec 04 20:48:16  <jmbsvicetto> A quick note - team and not herd :P
2008 Dec 04 20:48:27  <jmbsvicetto> We're talking about the people and not about the packages ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:48:41  <tilya> i will be the queen ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:48:41  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: herd is missused for this for so long...
2008 Dec 04 20:48:44  --> dagger (n=dagger@piasek.co.uk) has joined #gentoo-kde
2008 Dec 04 20:49:06  <scarabeus> i think word herd needs redefinition but it is not on todays topic
2008 Dec 04 20:49:12  -*- cryos|work never got why people were so picky about the words used, is it really a herd of packages? :D
2008 Dec 04 20:49:34  <krytzz> a bunch of packages
2008 Dec 04 20:49:35  <scarabeus> ok so no lead for now, when times change jmbsvicetto is first on the row :P
2008 Dec 04 20:49:41  <krytzz> gentoo kde-bunch-of-people
2008 Dec 04 20:49:56  <cryos|work> It is work time for me over here, I could do with getting stuff done soon. So I may leave in 5-10 mins.
2008 Dec 04 20:49:59  <jmbsvicetto> moving on to other not so pleasant topic, I think we need to look at the team members again - afaik, we have people listed in the kde page that haven't done anything kde related for many, many months
2008 Dec 04 20:50:06  <-- comawhite (n=comawhit@unaffiliated/comawhite) has quit ("Leaving")
2008 Dec 04 20:50:26  --> tgurr (n=tgurr@gentoo/developer/tgurr) has joined #gentoo-kde
2008 Dec 04 20:50:26  -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+o tgurr] by ChanServ
2008 Dec 04 20:50:36  <jmbsvicetto> Hi tgurr 
2008 Dec 04 20:50:40  <scarabeus> agreed, we should clean it up, ask everyone if they are willing to do something and so on (does not count for people that are mentioned away)
2008 Dec 04 20:50:46  <tgurr> jmbsvicetto: hi
2008 Dec 04 20:50:58  <-- erulabs (n=seandon@net-cf9a4013.noc.impulse.net) has quit ("Leaving.")
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2008 Dec 04 20:51:32  <jmbsvicetto> Getting to the same old same, it would help if all the members would be willing to join irc, but I don't have any illusions about getting some people in here
2008 Dec 04 20:51:50  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: are you willing to mail them
2008 Dec 04 20:52:06  <jmbsvicetto> About being team members, sure?
2008 Dec 04 20:52:11  <scarabeus> ok
2008 Dec 04 20:52:16  <scarabeus> i am writing up notes
2008 Dec 04 20:52:20  <scarabeus> so we have them after end
2008 Dec 04 20:52:21  <scarabeus> :]
2008 Dec 04 20:52:38  <scarabeus> about members
2008 Dec 04 20:52:42  <scarabeus> we have problem in qt herd
2008 Dec 04 20:52:46  <scarabeus> it is just yngwin 
2008 Dec 04 20:53:00  <scarabeus> how to get some qt devepoer :]
2008 Dec 04 20:53:05  <jmbsvicetto> I can even do something better, send a mail to the kde alias and ask everyone for a little introspection and to let us know if they're still part of the team and or want to be part of the team ;)
2008 Dec 04 20:53:20  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: that i leave up to you :]
2008 Dec 04 20:53:22  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I thought carlo and caleb where still in the team
2008 Dec 04 20:53:39  <yngwin> they are but they are inactive and non-responsive
2008 Dec 04 20:53:40  <scarabeus> did you hear/see some commits from them in last month/2
2008 Dec 04 20:53:41  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: with the obvious reservations about the above point
2008 Dec 04 20:53:56  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: ok, just wanted to confirm
2008 Dec 04 20:54:04  <scarabeus> reavertm: maybe you might be interested
2008 Dec 04 20:54:11  <reavertm> well, no major qt release recently so they may just wait for 4.5
2008 Dec 04 20:54:21  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I'll talk to you about qt
2008 Dec 04 20:54:22  <reavertm> in qt maintenance a bit?
2008 Dec 04 20:54:28  <scarabeus> and that reminds me, yngwin should get commit acces to kde-crazy
2008 Dec 04 20:54:32  <scarabeus> reavertm: yes
2008 Dec 04 20:54:57  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: do you have access to kde-testing? If not, you should also have it
2008 Dec 04 20:54:58  <krytzz> does bonsaikitten have access? :p
2008 Dec 04 20:55:11  <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: i dont
2008 Dec 04 20:55:16  <scarabeus> krytzz: silence there! ;D
2008 Dec 04 20:55:21  <yngwin> unless i do but dont know it 
2008 Dec 04 20:55:33  <reavertm> hmm, well I can try by forget about Qt from Trolltech svn fro bow - they shit svn only as daily snapshots via rsync
2008 Dec 04 20:55:37  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I forgot to tell you, but robbat2 replied to me earlier saying you should have access now
2008 Dec 04 20:55:46  <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: ok, let me try :)
2008 Dec 04 20:55:57  <reavertm> for now^^
2008 Dec 04 20:55:58  <bonsaikitten> also, phonecall, I kinda missed the last half hour or so
2008 Dec 04 20:56:01  <jmbsvicetto> ok, my purpose with the kde-* overlays was for everyone on the team to have access to them
2008 Dec 04 20:56:10  <scarabeus> yeah agreed
2008 Dec 04 20:56:36  <jmbsvicetto> I initially asked jokey to grant access to everyone at the time in the team. I haven't followed it through, so I'll talk to robbat2 again asking for an update about the current status
2008 Dec 04 20:56:52  <scarabeus> and i took the liberty and added yngwin to team list on kde page, since it is project page for qt and kde, not only kde, i think i forget to mention that before for that i am ashamed
2008 Dec 04 20:57:05  <yngwin> ok tnx
2008 Dec 04 20:57:18  <yngwin> maybe i should get op status here then as well
2008 Dec 04 20:57:18  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yes, you're right
2008 Dec 04 20:57:22  <jmbsvicetto> sure
2008 Dec 04 20:57:30  <jmbsvicetto> keytoaster: I think it has to be you doing it
2008 Dec 04 20:57:45  <jmbsvicetto> keytoaster: iirc, we transfered +F to you
2008 Dec 04 20:58:57  <bonsaikitten> oooh. can has access :D
2008 Dec 04 20:59:01  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: seems I was able to grant it to you
2008 Dec 04 20:59:06  <bonsaikitten> DrEeevil: you fail.
2008 Dec 04 20:59:08  <-- NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
2008 Dec 04 20:59:12  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: :)
2008 Dec 04 20:59:32  <scarabeus> ok one more infra thing
2008 Dec 04 20:59:36  -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+o yngwin] by jmbsvicetto
2008 Dec 04 20:59:44  <scarabeus> tampakrap would need normal mentor if he wants to became full dev
2008 Dec 04 20:59:51  <scarabeus> i am willing to help him with the quiz
2008 Dec 04 20:59:57  <scarabeus> but someone must oversee
2008 Dec 04 20:59:59  <scarabeus> who can do that
2008 Dec 04 21:00:11  <bonsaikitten> I'm too young for that I think
2008 Dec 04 21:00:14  <scarabeus> end-quiz we are speaking about
2008 Dec 04 21:00:15  <jmbsvicetto> I'm also willing to help, but I still don't have the 6 months, so I can't mentor
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2008 Dec 04 21:00:17  <tampakrap> first of all is everyone ok with that?
2008 Dec 04 21:00:19  <bonsaikitten> my quantum status is confusing
2008 Dec 04 21:00:31  -*- bonsaikitten is 2 years on, 2 years off ...
2008 Dec 04 21:00:42  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: You're *chaotic* ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:00:44  <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: ;] you are cheating :D
2008 Dec 04 21:00:47  <krytzz> i am
2008 Dec 04 21:00:55  <bonsaikitten> so is that 2 years or 2 months now? :)
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2008 Dec 04 21:01:16  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: we need to ask Betelgeuse
2008 Dec 04 21:01:22  <bonsaikitten> :)
2008 Dec 04 21:01:39  <bonsaikitten> I think it is better if I stay out of it for a while
2008 Dec 04 21:01:39  <krytzz> perhaps jokey could do it?
2008 Dec 04 21:01:54  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: jokey is away
2008 Dec 04 21:01:56  <yngwin> i thought jokey was caught up in real life
2008 Dec 04 21:01:57  <scarabeus> jokay is away
2008 Dec 04 21:02:01  <krytzz> ok
2008 Dec 04 21:02:06  <scarabeus> yngwin: you cant do it?
2008 Dec 04 21:02:19  <yngwin> i can
2008 Dec 04 21:02:29  <yngwin> although i dont feel guru enough
2008 Dec 04 21:02:53  <scarabeus> :]
2008 Dec 04 21:03:07  <bonsaikitten> yngwin: you are guru enough!
2008 Dec 04 21:03:14  <scarabeus> dont worry, from mine humble PoV you are guru enought
2008 Dec 04 21:03:16  <yngwin> well, if you say so :)
2008 Dec 04 21:03:27  <jmbsvicetto> :)
2008 Dec 04 21:03:36  <tampakrap> thanks :)
2008 Dec 04 21:03:52  <yngwin> is there a bug for tampakrap's recruitment?
2008 Dec 04 21:04:01  <tampakrap> no
2008 Dec 04 21:04:02  <keytoaster> keytoaster: yes you did
2008 Dec 04 21:04:06  <keytoaster> err
2008 Dec 04 21:04:08  <-- Scorcerer (n=Scorek@77-87-120-128.rev.masterkom.pl) has quit (Connection timed out)
2008 Dec 04 21:04:08  -=- Scorcere1 is now known as Scorcerer
2008 Dec 04 21:04:08  <keytoaster> jmbsvicetto: yes you did
2008 Dec 04 21:04:21  <scarabeus> yngwin: nope i can create one, i made him HT yesterday
2008 Dec 04 21:04:27  <yngwin> okay
2008 Dec 04 21:04:42  <jmbsvicetto> I let it pass, but since scarabeus mentioned the project page, we both applied some changes to the page to integrate KDE4 as a regular release and to update the status of the overlays
2008 Dec 04 21:04:58  <jmbsvicetto> Don't know if everyone has checked it and whether there's any objection to it
2008 Dec 04 21:05:03  <yngwin> scarabeus: then i'll second on that, and then we can see what betelgeuse says
2008 Dec 04 21:05:09  <-- scratch[x] (n=scratch@83.239.148.148) has quit (No route to host)
2008 Dec 04 21:05:14  <yngwin> tampakrap: kaloriziko ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:05:23  <tampakrap> wtf?
2008 Dec 04 21:05:25  <scarabeus> we can do this stuff after meeting, great :]
2008 Dec 04 21:05:43  <scarabeus> ok last two things per my list
2008 Dec 04 21:05:46  <scarabeus> first is kde4.2
2008 Dec 04 21:05:50  <scarabeus> so what shape is it in
2008 Dec 04 21:05:56  <scarabeus> it is just statusreport for it
2008 Dec 04 21:06:00  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Good and BAD!!!
2008 Dec 04 21:06:01  <scarabeus> so speak up kde-crazy people
2008 Dec 04 21:06:04  <bonsaikitten> I'll take care of them snapshots
2008 Dec 04 21:06:09  <reavertm> well, it works :)
2008 Dec 04 21:06:15  <tampakrap> i'll also give priority to snapshots
2008 Dec 04 21:06:21  <krytzz> plasma crashes often :p
2008 Dec 04 21:06:22  <yngwin> kde 4.2? its crap. it friggin' needs mysql
2008 Dec 04 21:06:28  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: my keyboard layout is still messed up - but nepomuk and plasma have a better look ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:06:36  <bonsaikitten> it works quite well for me
2008 Dec 04 21:06:41  <krytzz> also for me nepomuk is strange
2008 Dec 04 21:06:46  <bonsaikitten> had a few compile failures, but nothing unexpected
2008 Dec 04 21:06:54  <reavertm> I guess trunk is way better than snapshots, but... regressions are quite often recently
2008 Dec 04 21:07:01  <krytzz> but rest is ok
2008 Dec 04 21:07:02  <reavertm> ebuild-wise - it's pretty mature
2008 Dec 04 21:07:14  <jmbsvicetto> One important point about snapshots, they can't rely on live packages
2008 Dec 04 21:07:24  <bonsaikitten> live is in a very good shape, snapshots have been a bit neglected
2008 Dec 04 21:07:25  <reavertm> but upstream will mess with buildsystem for sure
2008 Dec 04 21:07:31  -*- bonsaikitten is just digesting them
2008 Dec 04 21:07:35  <jmbsvicetto> So we need to bug other teams or add new versions/snapshots if required to the overlay/tree
2008 Dec 04 21:07:50  <krytzz> especially opensync :p
2008 Dec 04 21:07:55  <scarabeus> opensync is problem
2008 Dec 04 21:07:57  <scarabeus> currently
2008 Dec 04 21:08:20  <scarabeus> and also networkmanager, i took liberty of speaking up with rbu on our behalf
2008 Dec 04 21:08:31  <reavertm> opensync and it;s plugins were problematic with kde3 already
2008 Dec 04 21:08:34  <scarabeus> and today/tomorow nm-0.7 hit the tree
2008 Dec 04 21:08:38  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: one solution is to try to add an update to kde-crazy overlay until it gets in the tree
2008 Dec 04 21:08:52  <krytzz> ah nice
2008 Dec 04 21:08:55  <reavertm> kitchensync is just lame kde3 port
2008 Dec 04 21:08:59  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: rbu has shown interest in getting nm working
2008 Dec 04 21:09:03  <scarabeus> yes
2008 Dec 04 21:09:08  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: he might need some help with it, though
2008 Dec 04 21:09:09  <scarabeus> he already made it work
2008 Dec 04 21:09:17  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well i will ask
2008 Dec 04 21:09:48  <jmbsvicetto> The GNOME team was also interested in getting 0.7 in the tree, iirc
2008 Dec 04 21:10:19  <reavertm> yeah, everyone is crazy about those networkmanager desktop applets...
2008 Dec 04 21:10:42  <bonsaikitten> can we prevent such cross-repo dependencies in the future?
2008 Dec 04 21:10:54  <jmbsvicetto> I would just love to get some applet that does the eap stuff for me ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:11:05  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: what deps?
2008 Dec 04 21:11:08  <scarabeus> there will be rule for next time all must be on portage/overlay
2008 Dec 04 21:11:14  <bonsaikitten> like nm 
2008 Dec 04 21:11:23  <reavertm> like kde4 requiring nm from rbu overlay
2008 Dec 04 21:11:24  <bonsaikitten> we should have a copy in our repo if that happens
2008 Dec 04 21:11:31  <jmbsvicetto> yeah, agreed
2008 Dec 04 21:11:36  <krytzz> hm but this sucks somehow
2008 Dec 04 21:11:44  <krytzz> if you have both overlays you have the ebuild 2 times
2008 Dec 04 21:11:50  <jmbsvicetto> at least until we can get Zac to support repo deps ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:11:50  <krytzz> and you dont know if the 2 differ or something
2008 Dec 04 21:12:05  <scarabeus> repodeps ;]
2008 Dec 04 21:12:10  <scarabeus> it sounds llike sam rep band
2008 Dec 04 21:12:11  <krytzz> also its additional maintenance work
2008 Dec 04 21:12:25  <tampakrap> talking about overlays i'd like to remind everyone that versioned misc packages go to kde-testing :)
2008 Dec 04 21:12:35  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: yes, we should only have them until it gets pushed into the tree
2008 Dec 04 21:12:36  <reavertm> yeah, i just see GLEP for it being discussed, then presented, then rejected or suspended :P
2008 Dec 04 21:12:39  <krytzz> ok tampakrap :p
2008 Dec 04 21:13:02  <scarabeus> ok so what with opensync
2008 Dec 04 21:13:06  <scarabeus> it is BbD
2008 Dec 04 21:13:08  <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: versioned "not known to be broken" misc packages ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:13:13  <scarabeus> broken by design
2008 Dec 04 21:13:13  <krytzz> i wouldnt mind with a central gentoo-deps overlay :p
2008 Dec 04 21:13:30  <bonsaikitten> we call that "the main tree"
2008 Dec 04 21:13:38  <reavertm> scarabeus you mean opensync akonadi plugin or kitchensync?
2008 Dec 04 21:13:44  <bonsaikitten> so, how fast are we going to get 4.2 there as ~arch?
2008 Dec 04 21:13:51  <krytzz> bonsaikitten then stab people to get things faster in there then :p
2008 Dec 04 21:13:54  <bonsaikitten> and is kde 4.2 a stable candidate?
2008 Dec 04 21:14:06  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I don't think we should get 4.2 in the tree until RC
2008 Dec 04 21:14:09  <scarabeus> yeah crappy opensync
2008 Dec 04 21:14:16  <bonsaikitten> krytzz: I'm just cleaning up. If that's not enough go screw yourself counterclockwise ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:14:24  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I would also hard mask the RCs and lift the mask with 4.2
2008 Dec 04 21:14:25  <tampakrap> i think it is time to have a stable kde4 version
2008 Dec 04 21:14:31  <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: acceptable
2008 Dec 04 21:14:48  <reavertm> scarabeus yes, but be more specific, opensync from portage is crappy or kde opensync support?
2008 Dec 04 21:14:49  <krytzz> i think if the 4.2 progress continues like know it should be great by 4.2.1
2008 Dec 04 21:14:58  <scarabeus> opensync from portage
2008 Dec 04 21:14:59  <krytzz> now
2008 Dec 04 21:14:59  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: we might however start thinking on moving 4.2 into kde-testing
2008 Dec 04 21:15:02  <scarabeus> opensync itself
2008 Dec 04 21:15:09  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: at least as soon as we take care of the eclasses
2008 Dec 04 21:15:17  <scarabeus> eclasses first! :D
2008 Dec 04 21:15:17  <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: +1
2008 Dec 04 21:15:34  <jmbsvicetto> and I do think 4.2 should be a stable candidate - let's just see how it works
2008 Dec 04 21:15:47  <jmbsvicetto> one thing we need to solve quickly is getting 3.5.10 marked stable
2008 Dec 04 21:16:05  <scarabeus> that is already stated in the summary paper :]
2008 Dec 04 21:16:08  <reavertm> jmbsvicetto which 4.2? you mean snapshots and revbump as 4.2 and keep them updated along with snaphots from kde-crazy?
2008 Dec 04 21:16:10  <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: i'll start working on kde3 right after this meeting
2008 Dec 04 21:16:18  <reavertm> if yes, then you are crazy ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:16:33  <tampakrap> why?
2008 Dec 04 21:16:35  <scarabeus> nope to testing should go only snapshots marked as betaX
2008 Dec 04 21:16:36  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I mean that I think 4.2 snapshots should be moved to testing
2008 Dec 04 21:16:45  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: after the eclasses are merged back again
2008 Dec 04 21:16:49  <scarabeus> snapshot itself i disagree
2008 Dec 04 21:16:57  <scarabeus> but snapshots for beta1 beta2 rcX
2008 Dec 04 21:16:58  <scarabeus> yes
2008 Dec 04 21:17:04  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: yes, that's what I mean
2008 Dec 04 21:17:10  <jmbsvicetto> should have been clearer
2008 Dec 04 21:17:16  <reavertm> I wouldn't advise that atm - there may be many changes and syncing them between kde-crazy <-> kde-testing ...
2008 Dec 04 21:17:17  <scarabeus> great then we agree :]
2008 Dec 04 21:17:34  <scarabeus> reavertm: just delete it and copy from point A to point B
2008 Dec 04 21:17:39  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: git cherry-pick ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:17:41  <scarabeus> it wont harm kittens TM
2008 Dec 04 21:17:52  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: cherry-pick cross repos?
2008 Dec 04 21:17:56  <jmbsvicetto> yes
2008 Dec 04 21:17:58  <scarabeus> wow
2008 Dec 04 21:18:00  <scarabeus> that i didnt know
2008 Dec 04 21:18:05  <scarabeus> that is even more cooler
2008 Dec 04 21:18:11  <reavertm> scnaphots are keep sync from live now - and I would just wait until some rc is released, and patched in kde-crazy and then quick revbup and move -> testing
2008 Dec 04 21:18:28  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: hmm, now you're going to force me to test it to be sure I didn't came up with that
2008 Dec 04 21:18:36  <reavertm> well, if you volunteer to do it :)
2008 Dec 04 21:19:14  <-- genady12 (n=genady12@87.69.85.204) has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
2008 Dec 04 21:19:15  <scarabeus> ok this can be suspended and handled later
2008 Dec 04 21:19:20  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The idea was to try to have RCs in the tree, so we should try to get something in testing before that
2008 Dec 04 21:19:21  <scarabeus> now more pain in the ass TM issue
2008 Dec 04 21:19:25  <scarabeus> mysql
2008 Dec 04 21:19:28  <scarabeus> whole kde needs it
2008 Dec 04 21:19:33  <bonsaikitten> aarghl! :)
2008 Dec 04 21:19:33  <scarabeus> and amarok is chapter itself
2008 Dec 04 21:19:42  <scarabeus> what to do with it
2008 Dec 04 21:19:43  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's only one option here: work with robbat2
2008 Dec 04 21:19:50  <krytzz> yes... we cant do anything about that :(
2008 Dec 04 21:19:58  <scarabeus> did you see the eclass
2008 Dec 04 21:19:58  <reavertm> yes, I agres 4.2 should be in tree asap but moving it to testing only for the sake of having it in kde-testing is bad idea imho
2008 Dec 04 21:20:01  <krytzz> does he maintain mysql?
2008 Dec 04 21:20:04  <scarabeus> did? did? i dont like it
2008 Dec 04 21:20:09  <scarabeus> krytzz: yes he does
2008 Dec 04 21:20:09  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I've asked him yesterday and he's still waiting for mysql upstream to reply to his request for a dynamic lib for mysql/e
2008 Dec 04 21:20:17  <reavertm> I've already put my mysql rant in gentoo-dev :P
2008 Dec 04 21:20:17  <krytzz> ah ok
2008 Dec 04 21:20:31  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what do you mean?
2008 Dec 04 21:21:03  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: too chaotical too much patches too much crazy
2008 Dec 04 21:21:11  <scarabeus> but i dunno how is upstream cooperating
2008 Dec 04 21:21:19  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The point of kde-testing is to be the bridge to the tree
2008 Dec 04 21:21:28  <scarabeus> ok on other hand who is willing to cooperate with robbat2 on that?
2008 Dec 04 21:21:32  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: you mean mysql eclass?
2008 Dec 04 21:21:37  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ay sir
2008 Dec 04 21:21:46  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: mysql isn't that "simple"
2008 Dec 04 21:22:05  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: And robbat2 if surely one if not the "one" gentoo mysql yoda
2008 Dec 04 21:22:09  <jmbsvicetto> s/if/is/
2008 Dec 04 21:22:12  <reavertm> I've seen this eclass and it's.. well.. a bit complex as eclass for one package
2008 Dec 04 21:22:34  <bonsaikitten> reavertm: it adds a build system to a braindead package ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:22:39  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm willing to work with robbat2 about mysql
2008 Dec 04 21:22:58  <reavertm> yeah, I heard....
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2008 Dec 04 21:23:12  <scarabeus> great puting you to the txt :]
2008 Dec 04 21:23:27  <scarabeus> ok issues from my side mentioned
2008 Dec 04 21:23:32  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll have to check that text - it feels like I'm being "canned" ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:23:36  <scarabeus> someone else has something that needs to be handled
2008 Dec 04 21:23:49  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: dont worry i try to make it to be factical
2008 Dec 04 21:23:58  <tampakrap> is there an open bug for 3.5.10 stabilization?
2008 Dec 04 21:24:01  <jmbsvicetto> yes
2008 Dec 04 21:24:08  <tampakrap> if not let's create one to sum up the issues
2008 Dec 04 21:24:12  <tampakrap> ok then
2008 Dec 04 21:24:15  <krytzz> yeah, about the kde-plasma category: could we do it?
2008 Dec 04 21:24:15  <jmbsvicetto> If ctrl+f3 worked here, I could get you the number quicker ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:24:17  <tampakrap> i'll search
2008 Dec 04 21:24:24  <jmbsvicetto> bug kde-3.5.10
2008 Dec 04 21:24:27  <krytzz> do you like it?
2008 Dec 04 21:24:44  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: I don't think we should go down that route
2008 Dec 04 21:25:13  <scarabeus> ok what are the alternatives
2008 Dec 04 21:25:14  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: If we try to get kde-plasma, kde-plasmoids, ..., we're going to create resistance
2008 Dec 04 21:25:28  <krytzz> no, only kde-plasma jmbsvicetto for everything plasma-related
2008 Dec 04 21:25:31  <scarabeus> kde-plasma only it is going to be
2008 Dec 04 21:25:32  <jmbsvicetto> we've lived with kde-base and kde-misc for a long, long time
2008 Dec 04 21:25:34  <tampakrap> could we have plasmoids for more than one version? and in case of slotted kde's, could we install a plasmoid for every session?
2008 Dec 04 21:25:59  <jmbsvicetto> how many packages are we talking and what type of packages
2008 Dec 04 21:25:59  <scarabeus> tampakrap: nope it is same as misc packages for more kde installs
2008 Dec 04 21:26:09  <reavertm> tampakrap they won't build that easy
2008 Dec 04 21:26:11  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: plasma aplets and enginges
2008 Dec 04 21:26:15  <krytzz> hm ok thats just personal preference how filled the categories are, but i prefer fewer packages per category
2008 Dec 04 21:26:28  <scarabeus> currently about 150 on kde-apps/look
2008 Dec 04 21:26:39  <scarabeus> and we can bundle them all in the end
2008 Dec 04 21:26:54  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: if we're talking about kde-look, perhaps we're going down the wrong path
2008 Dec 04 21:26:58  <reavertm> categories are bad btw, some tag clouds should be introduced one day...
2008 Dec 04 21:27:10  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm thinking if we couldn't try to do something similar to what the perl team did with cpan
2008 Dec 04 21:27:15  --> Eythan (n=Eythan@AMontpellier-152-1-30-159.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #gentoo-kde
2008 Dec 04 21:27:16  <krytzz> reavertm one day... yes :p
2008 Dec 04 21:27:22  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: what they did
2008 Dec 04 21:27:40  <scarabeus> some perl magic i guess ;]
2008 Dec 04 21:27:45  <jmbsvicetto> yup ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:28:09  --> fedux (n=fedux@190.55.126.139) has joined #gentoo-kde
2008 Dec 04 21:28:11  <jmbsvicetto> app-portage/g-cpan g-cpan: generate and install CPAN modules using portage
2008 Dec 04 21:28:19  <krytzz> hm
2008 Dec 04 21:28:58  <krytzz> i assume this is like ruby gems?
2008 Dec 04 21:28:59  <reavertm> so dedicated tool only for some plasmoids?
2008 Dec 04 21:29:24  <reavertm> not worth it imho
2008 Dec 04 21:29:31  <jmbsvicetto> I haven't looked at their implementation, but if I'm not mistaken, they've created a tool to help install packages in cpan. So instead of having one ebuild for every kde-look package, we could try to have some tool that helps install packages from kde-look
2008 Dec 04 21:29:38  <tampakrap> i thought that upstream was going to apply a tool for downloading and easy installing plasmoids
2008 Dec 04 21:29:53  <krytzz> yeah kde-look, but plasmoids still have to be compiled
2008 Dec 04 21:30:04  <krytzz> cpan stuff not
2008 Dec 04 21:30:07  <reavertm> and have various dependencies
2008 Dec 04 21:30:31  <jmbsvicetto> No way to get them working without ebuilds?
2008 Dec 04 21:30:34  <krytzz> tampakrap hm but only for script plasmoids?
2008 Dec 04 21:30:34  <tampakrap> and apply to different kde versions
2008 Dec 04 21:30:44  <tampakrap> i'm not sure
2008 Dec 04 21:30:48  <reavertm> well, actually I was thinking about some ebuild generator with automatic depencency discovering (originally for plasmoids from playground)
2008 Dec 04 21:31:11  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: not bad idea
2008 Dec 04 21:31:13  <jmbsvicetto> I think we need to think more about this
2008 Dec 04 21:31:17  <scarabeus> writing it down as long-term goal
2008 Dec 04 21:31:18  <reavertm> while ebuild generator (without deps) I got done already, eclass is not yet ready for fetch/unpack from playground
2008 Dec 04 21:31:56  <jmbsvicetto> Are plasmoids "heavy"?
2008 Dec 04 21:32:09  <tampakrap> some of them
2008 Dec 04 21:32:12  <tampakrap> very few
2008 Dec 04 21:32:13  <krytzz> some are pretty normal c++ apps, so i would say yes
2008 Dec 04 21:32:33  <krytzz> the script ones can be installed by plasma, we dont have to care about these
2008 Dec 04 21:33:38  <jmbsvicetto> Anything else?
2008 Dec 04 21:33:45  <reavertm> well, we could do as well some knewstuff2 interface for kde4 for plasmoids but we're not kde devs..
2008 Dec 04 21:34:10  <reavertm> (it could reduce problem of plasmoids to installing them as icon themes)
2008 Dec 04 21:34:26  <krytzz> yeah debug useflag in eclass
2008 Dec 04 21:34:33  <krytzz> but ok this was already discussed
2008 Dec 04 21:34:41  <scarabeus> it is on dev already
2008 Dec 04 21:34:45  <reavertm> was it?
2008 Dec 04 21:34:45  <krytzz> ah ok
2008 Dec 04 21:34:46  <scarabeus> so lets see how that evolve
2008 Dec 04 21:34:53  <reavertm> aa, my proposition?
2008 Dec 04 21:34:59  <scarabeus> reavertm: we might have to write it as glep
2008 Dec 04 21:35:00  <reavertm> it won't evolve...
2008 Dec 04 21:35:03  <scarabeus> and push it trhought
2008 Dec 04 21:35:38  <reavertm> no way, just pass - it's against "ultimate freedom" and to package manager specific
2008 Dec 04 21:35:45  <scarabeus> i dont care they are picky about it, i think they would not agree with anything that does not worship their ethernal glory (dont cite me that is just brief overview of those flames)
2008 Dec 04 21:35:46  <reavertm> as it uses FEATURES
2008 Dec 04 21:36:43  <reavertm> anyway, "our own" debug suport you mean?
2008 Dec 04 21:37:03  <reavertm> well, "additiomnal debug codepaths" are supported already
2008 Dec 04 21:38:01  <krytzz> hm so scarabeus whats the role model for kde-misc ebuilds now?
2008 Dec 04 21:38:22  <scarabeus> krytzz: have no idea
2008 Dec 04 21:38:29  <scarabeus> everything what is not in kde-base
2008 Dec 04 21:38:32  <reavertm> actually I see no role for kde-misc really - never seen
2008 Dec 04 21:38:32  <scarabeus> from what i can see
2008 Dec 04 21:38:44  <reavertm> ok, kdevelop, kdesvn then?
2008 Dec 04 21:39:03  <krytzz> hm
2008 Dec 04 21:39:09  <scarabeus> oh it is mess like hell
2008 Dec 04 21:39:14  <reavertm> kdevelop is in KDE even and it will be in kde-base soon I guess (released as part of KDE)
2008 Dec 04 21:39:21  <reavertm> it is messy a bit
2008 Dec 04 21:40:00  <scarabeus> ok is this still part of meeting chat or we can dismisso ourselfs?
2008 Dec 04 21:40:11  <krytzz> i have nothing further
2008 Dec 04 21:40:12  <scarabeus> oh typos it is going to kill me one day
2008 Dec 04 21:40:39  <reavertm> scarabeus bug wranglers - needed or not?
2008 Dec 04 21:40:47  <scarabeus> not now, we have pretty big list
2008 Dec 04 21:40:59  <scarabeus> i will write it onto longterm with you as person interested
2008 Dec 04 21:40:59  <scarabeus> ok
2008 Dec 04 21:41:01  <scarabeus> ?
2008 Dec 04 21:41:37  <jmbsvicetto> I think you're looking at it from the wrong pov - bug-wranglers
2008 Dec 04 21:41:40  <reavertm> well, I'm not going to push if it's seen not necessary
2008 Dec 04 21:42:13  <yngwin> ok, i'm putting in a staffing-needs/recruitment request for developers and/or herd testers for qt herd
2008 Dec 04 21:42:16  <reavertm> I would like to model it a bit like KDE team, at least have more of them than 1
2008 Dec 04 21:42:25  <jmbsvicetto> We don't need bug wranglers to look at new bugs and check if they're kde bugs. We need people that work through kde bugs and help get them resolved - by providing patches, by doing tests, by interacting with users.
2008 Dec 04 21:42:31  <krytzz> ok when the eclasses are merged every kde-testing ebuild should have the KDE_MINIMUM  thing scarabeus?
2008 Dec 04 21:42:42  <scarabeus> nope
2008 Dec 04 21:42:56  <scarabeus> krytzz: kde_minimal is only override variable
2008 Dec 04 21:43:00  <scarabeus> it should work as they are now
2008 Dec 04 21:43:10  <scarabeus> read up description in eclass
2008 Dec 04 21:43:13  <krytzz> ok
2008 Dec 04 21:43:14  <krytzz> ill do
2008 Dec 04 21:43:45  <jmbsvicetto> ok, one last request from me - if you work in the overlays, be sure to run repoman full from time to time. There's some extra cookies for those also running pcheck ;)
2008 Dec 04 21:44:04  <scarabeus> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde_meeting_state.txt
2008 Dec 04 21:44:12  <scarabeus> and i am going to save the log from this
2008 Dec 04 21:44:13  <krytzz> got it ^^
2008 Dec 04 21:44:21  <scarabeus> should i put it onto kde space?
2008 Dec 04 21:44:37  <tampakrap> and please try to forward my access to kde-testing, i want to do some kde3 work there
2008 Dec 04 21:45:58  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sure